NEIL MEIKLE, the director of rugby at Heriot’s, says the description of Super 6 teams as potential ‘super-hoovers’ is pretty accurate – but he takes issue with the inference that this is automatically a bad thing for Scottish rugby.
He believes that, if managed properly, the new league structure being proposed by the SRU as part of their controversial Agenda 3 programme should properly harness the country’s playing resources and improve the game at all levels.
“It should go right down to the schools and be sucking everybody up through the Regional League clubs, the National League clubs, the Championship clubs and into Super 6, so that everyone is playing at the most appropriate standard for their ability and commitment level,” he explains. “So ‘Super-Hoover’ is the right word, but it goes a lot deeper than the National League clubs [who appear to be the most agitated by the prospect of losing players] – but it can’t be about the Super 6 taking everything and not putting anything back.
“People are getting too focussed on emotion, and too focussed on day one. ‘Are we losing our star player to Super 6?’ The answer is yes, and you should do. That’s the way the world works now,” he adds.
Rennie and Thomson to leave SRU following shake-up of domestic rugby department
Details of Agenda 3 will be issued after deadline for AGM motions
There is growing unrest amongst the clubs not involved in Super 6 about what will be left behind once the new league kicks-off at the start of the 2019-20 season. A particular bone of contention is the plan for ‘amateur’ teams of Super 6 franchises to be placed in National League One of the new domestic league format, with the potential to be promoted at the end of that campaign straight into the top-tier Championship.
Two motions have been tabled by National League clubs for August’s SRU AGM. The first motion demands that the clubs and not paid SRU administrators have final say on league structure. The second motion calls for a debate on a number of key issues relating to Agenda 3, including where these Super 6 amateur teams should be placed in the new league structure and what the appropriate definition of ‘amateur’ is for the purposes of this new set-up.
At least two Super 6 clubs will argue that they have simply taken on responsibility for hosting a franchise as a separate entity, that the status of their core club has not changed, and that they have dropped down into National One as a concession to the other clubs. On that basis, if the other clubs reject the proposal for Super 6 amateur teams to play in National One, then they expect to automatically resume their current position in the top flight of the club game.
But Meikle believes a more conciliatory approach is required.
“It is vital that we come to some sort of agreement that maybe doesn’t suit everyone – but is acceptable to everyone,” he says. “I don’t know what the answer is to that, but I know the answer is not running roughshod over the rest of the clubs – because that maybe works for year one, but I don’t see it working in year five.
“There’s a lot of thinking to be done on that. You can’t just knee-jerk it – there’s going to be a lot of learning this as we go along. So, we’ll need to put an agreement in place for year one, but we may have to amend that for year two.
“It fundamentally comes back to Super 6 clubs working with the rest of the clubs – that’s so key. People have got to have a new mindset on this because if we go in with the old prejudices, the old thinking and the old ideas then we are going to end up in the same place.”
Meikle also believes that people are underestimating how easy it will be for the Super 6 clubs to resource and run an ‘amateur’ team capable of competing at the top of the Championship on top of the demands of a newly formed Super 6 franchise.
“Clubs like Currie Chieftains, Glasgow Hawks, Hawick, Edinburgh Accies and Jed-Forest are all going to be pretty damn competitive. To run a team to be successful against them, you don’t just need to find the players but also coaches and support staff as well. It is not going to be easy and it is not going to be cheap, so I’m not convinced by this assumption that all the Super 6 ‘amateur’ teams will automatically end up at the top of the Championship.
“I think the question you ask these players is: Do you want to play for Edinburgh Accies 1st XV going for the Championship, or a Heriot’s 2nd XV trying to find their way? Because if being part of a Heriot’s or Ayr or Melrose 2nd XV is a prerequisite of making their Super 6 squad then something is really wrong.
“What is the goal of a Championship side? I hope it is to be the champions. So that when Neil Meikle goes to a player at a Championship club and says: ‘Do you want to play for Heriot’s 2nd XV?’ He can say: ‘No chance mate. I’m playing for Edinburgh Accies and we’re going to win the league.’ I have no problem with that, because they want to play at the best level available to them at that time, and they are showing a bit of loyalty which is a good thing.
HEAD COACH REQUIRED: Heriot’s are already advertising for a head coach to run their Super 6 team, initially coming on board on a part-time basis before going full-time during the lead-up to the league’s launch in August 2019.
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“I can state categorically that our Super 6 team will be looking for the best players available, not just the ones who are in our 2nd XV. People are too simplistic, they don’t actually think about it from a players’ perspective.
“And I want this on the record, we are not recruiting anybody for this last season of the Premiership from Edinburgh Accies or Currie Chieftains [who had unsuccessful franchise bids], and I think other Super 6 teams should follow that because we have a responsibility to ensure that the other teams within our area are not detrimentally affected by what we are doing.
“Why would we want to kill-off the other clubs in the area? We need to be looking to work with these guys and finding out what we can do to help them.”
35-man squads are not workable
Meikle continues: “I don’t think you can have 35 players because – going back to my previous point – how does that support the other clubs?
“Plus, try signing a third-choice hooker. At Heriot’s, that’s Stewart Mustard, so do I go to Muzzy and say: ‘You fancy signing this contract with no money, to be behind Michael Liness and Ali Johnstone?’ He’ll say: ‘You are never picking me if those two guys are fit, so I am never going to play, so I’d rather play with my pals in the 2nd XV’.
“Now, you might say that Stewart Mustard is a veteran and Super 6 is for youngsters who will sign-up for anything if they think it is a step in the right direction to a pro contract, but realistically that guy is better off playing regular rugby elsewhere, but training with us when appropriate, and stepping up when the chance comes along.
“We used 44 players this year, and I’d imagine most of the Premiership teams are about the same, so we are talking about 40 players being required as a conservative estimate – in which case, what’s the point of a 35-man squad? I think you go 25 and you float guys up and down. And if you have got ten floaters then you can’t have more than three in your 2ndXV and you float the other guys out to – in Heriots’ case – Stew-Mel and Edinburgh Accies.”
The geography issue
Another bone of contention is the geographic spread of Super 6 clubs, with three teams – including Heriot’s – based in Edinburgh, and five located within 40 miles of Murrayfield.
“The geographical argument doesn’t stack, in my view,” insists Meikle. “Having six teams that get this right – regardless of whether all six are from Edinburgh, Glasgow or the Borders – is far more important than having a geographic spread.
“If you take the top two divisions in Scotland at the moment, there’s three Glasgow teams there, and only one in the top flight, so if it is a hot bed of talent then where is it? The same applies with Aberdeen and Dundee.
“Edinburgh is a very, very competitive rugby environment and that’s why you have seen the Edinburgh clubs do well out of Super 6. This whole process wasn’t a sporting competition, it was a business competition, and the Edinburgh clubs have existed in a massively competitive environment for decades, so we know we’ve got to be on top of our game every year – moving forward, changing what we do, and staying in front, because otherwise you just get eaten up.
Error, group does not exist! Check your syntax! (ID: 3)“Heriot’s is a finishing school. The nature of rugby has changed – guys don’t all come up through the junior section and play in the 1stXV anymore. If you look at the Scotland Under-20a squad this year, Heriot’s have two players in it, Currie have one, Stirling have one, there is French-based players and English-based players – the depth is really spread out. Good rugby teams come and go – it is about the longevity of what you can provide to aspiring players.
“It would have been great to have a Glasgow team. It would be great to have a geographic spread across the whole country – but if in five years’ time the whole thing is falling down, then what does it matter? Whereas, if in five years’ time we have a really strong six team league then we can go up to eight, we can even go back up to ten.
“Currie Chieftains will be absolutely fine because they are a great club who do what they do exceptionally well. It is not for me to say whether or not they should be in Super 6, but I have no doubt that they are big enough and strong enough and tough enough to adapt and thrive in this new environment. From a development perspective, they need to keep doing what they are doing, and Scottish rugby needs them to keep doing what they are doing. Nothing has actually changed in that sense from where they were before – their best players were getting taken into pro rugby and that’s still the case except it is Super 6 – we’ve always known that we needed to extend the pro game. The same goes for the other clubs which missed out.”
Six appeal
Meikle also dismisses concerns that a six-team league with a cross-border competition which looks like being against Welsh clubs will lack popular appeal.
“It is irrelevant. You can have a 15-team league when everyone is playing each other, and everyone is getting a shot, but that doesn’t work if you are serious about raising the level,” he reasons. “Is year one going to be better or is it going to be worse than what we’ve got at the moment? Who cares! It is about what it looks like in year five.
“You will struggle to find anyone who will say that the Premiership has really accelerated in the last three to four years. It is getting better, the players are physically better, but you would struggle to argue that the gap with the pro game has been substantially closed.
“I actually think that when the Edinburgh and Glasgow guys drop down it isn’t always easy to identify which one is the pro, mainly because they can’t be arsed. So, if we can create this intense environment then we can start to address that.
“People ask where the players are going to get the time from,” he continues. “To me, that betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of the effort and time that Premiership players already put in.
“You have these 65-year-old guys who played back in the good old days saying that club guys can’t afford the time to go part-time pro – but do they understand that current club players are already doing recovery sessions on a Sunday, video sessions Monday night, weights on Wednesday and training twice a week?
“If you look at the physical condition of some of these guys, you don’t get that from training twice a week – they are putting in the effort anyway so why not support them a bit more.”
A united front
The first meeting of Super 6 clubs to start planning for the start of the new league is next Wednesday evening. With a real lack of clarity as to how this new league is going to operate, there is likely to be some fraught conversations.
“The key to Super 6 working is the six teams coming together to make it happen. The SRU are there in an oversight role – they are not going to drive it forward – the clubs are,” says Meikle.
“One thing I don’t like is the suggestion now that the Super 6 franchises should get more money. The money has to be what was on the table when the bids went in because every club made a judgement on whether they were in or out based on that number, so, you can’t move the goalposts now.
“When you’re making changes of this magnitude, democracy doesn’t necessarily provide the best route to do it,” he says, in reference to the criticism which has been levelled against the SRU for railroading this overhaul of the club game through with minimal consultation with the clubs.
“The proof will be in the pudding in five years’ time, it won’t be year one when clubs are turning around saying we stole all their players – it will be five years’ time when we are able to assess whether we have built greater strength in depth and a better pathway for you players to reach their potential.”
Well done, Mr Dodson, you got your six … but the hard work starts now
I think there are various subjects being mixed here which is confusing the situation and I speak as myself not as Boroughmuir Rugby Club or as Waterboys Rugby.
First of all the Super 6 are franchises not clubs and as such they are by their nature set up to attract elite players to play semi professional rugby which implies that the players aspire to play professional rugby. Few existing BT Premiership players have this potential and no club can convert their first XV into a Super 6 franchise. If they did then their franchise would fail and their club would be decimated. If a club is at the core of a franchise then they will at a maximum allocate 8-10 players to a Super 6 franchise and need to fill the rest of the franchise personnel requirements from other players both domestic and outside of the Scottish leagues.
If the Super 6 are the pinnacle of the feeder system leading to professional rugby then they should either be allocated or develop a feeder system allowing a non-confrontational flow of players by capability through the system. The Super 6 team should have a responsibility for talent scouting and player development throughout the system in co-operation with the SRU. Clubs should be proud of a player being invited to play for a Super 6 franchise not see it as a failure or a loss or a theft.
A Super 6 franchise will have taken club players therefore if the core club has accepted to be demoted to National 1 by introducing a Super 6 franchise then there would be nothing wrong if the National 1 Club XV were to achieve promotion to the Premiership level. There is no demotion in Super 6 but promotion and demotion in the level of Premiership and National 1 should remain as is to maintain ambition.
Those clubs with a 300+ academy set up who have invested in their youth development programme will continue to be the life blood of club rugby and they will have the resources allocated to their existing club infrastructure while allowing some resources to be taken by the Super 6 franchise and by resources I mean the full structure of sponsors, management, coaching and support staff plus players.
Many players do not want to play Super 6. Some are good players who play in the BT Premiership but have no aspiration to be professional. Some are reaching the end of their sporting career and are transitioning into a professional life. The relationship between the SRU Academies and SRU Age Groups structures are as if not more important in a high performance structure.
Finally my main issue is who is going to watch Super 6. Apart from 3 Super 6 teams in Edinburgh we have seen how difficult it is for Edinburgh as a professional team to secure a following. It is essential that the scheduling of matches avoids Edinburgh teams playing at the same time in close proximity and that the franchises link into the club structure to get people to watch the matches that are on offer.
Thanks Alastair – some very good points there.
And there in lies the rub – what are these franchises? They aren’t ethereal entities floating around. If the clubs associated with these franchises have any sense they will be stand alone companies.
What is legally correct is that a “club” – that is an incorporated association – cannot undertake a legal contract as it has no legal personality. So unless the officials personally sign the contract with the sru then the “club” cannot do so.
I expect that all these franschises will be from clubs that already have been incorporated – so far so good. But that raises the next issue – which organisation will the officials be representing? Its AGM time and franchise club A officials arent happy about a particular motion at the agm however their amateur side are perfectly happy with it – getting confused yet? Im assuming the President will be a member of both the franchise and amateur club set ups – which hat do they wear at what times?
I dont want hold back any player who wants to play at a higher level – and dont believe any club does either (not that they can stop them anyway), however this idea of super hoover is a real problem. You just need to visit a certain central scotland club famed for its youth set up and its impact on the surrounding clubs with kids travelling many miles to be part of that set up – having the capacity for fielding two U18 sides and the other local clubs struggling to collectively filled one! So franchise amateur club starts to hoard “talent” with a view to getting it ready for future deployment in the franchise – if nothing else this will mightily piss off the other clubs in Nat 1 who wont have the same draw.
The question will be about one of mutual respect and collaboration for the franchise club to work with the other clubs in their area. Given we arent starting from a blank piece of paper and people have previous experience of these clubs and their officials, its going to need a lot of hard work and openness by all parties to build that spirit of collaboration
This is all rather predictable – when you bounce clubs into a series of radical changes when they haven’t been consulted and brought along you get the sort of reactions you are now seeing
I believed the Performance Dept at BTM would appoint the S6 coaches and fill the playing rosters??
Clearly, Mr Meikle is way out of his depth, on the basis of his unconnected, inaccurate and ultimately meaningless utterances regarding S6. Extremely unpromising bilge – he and his colleagues need to get a grip!
Neil Meikle and I have some pretty divergent views on a lot of issues relating to Scottish club rugby at the moment, but I don’t recognise the description of him in this comment.
A couple of points –
1. Neil is a pretty intelligent, reasonable and professional guy, as reflected in his position outside of rugby
2. Neil is at the pit-face of this whole process so has a far better insight into the dynamics of the relationship between the six clubs involved and the SRU than you could ever hope to have
3. It is possible to disagree with someone without resorting to unfounded personal insults
4 If you want people to take your point of view seriously then it is best to avoid unfounded personal insults
5. The Offside Line welcomes all reasonably held opinions and encourages debate – but it is not a platform for trolling
Evelyn Beatrice Hall’s Voltaire quote says it all for me!
You may indeed be correct at 1. and you are entitled to the statements at 3. – 5. but are way off target at 2. Thank you.
Still waiting for Mr Ron Sutherland to inform us why the Director of Rugby at club which has successfully obtained a Super Six franchise is not as well informed and close to the subject as he is!
The S6 and Agenda 3 docs set up a pro and amateur game. There is no floating between the two. So I have no idea what Neil is talking about. And that goes for much of the rest of the piece.
It further strengthens the idea that this is all be made up as they go along
My understanding is that players can’t “float” between the Part-time Professional side and the “amateur” side. As for floating guys to other clubs, that makes no sense and the opponents of these “carrier” clubs will object to players moving down leagues to bolster clubs like Stewart Melville. What happens in a weekend when there are no Super 6 fixtures…how much “floating” will be allowed?
I agree in a lot of what Rangi says above, which highlights the blurring of clear boundaries initially set out in Mark Dodson’s plans.